Kurt Dupuis:
Welcome to The Whole Truth, where two wholesalers help financial professionals build great practices and thrive in a rapidly changing industry. We'll bring you the stories and voices from those on the front lines of this change, and we'll have some fun along the way.
Steve Seid:
We're building a community of financial professionals who are growing, forward thinking, and want to get better. Thanks for listening and contributing to the discussion.
Disclosure:
The views expressed herein are those of the participants, and not those of Touchstone Investments.
Steve Seid:
And welcome everybody to the Whole Truth in the Bay Area, California. I am Steve Seid.
Kurt Dupuis:
And from Hotlanta, Georgia, I'm Kurt Dupuis.
Steve Seid:
Episode number 50.
Kurt Dupuis:
I know. Are we starting with Costanza at the beginning? That's good news. That's awesome.
Steve Seid:
We did 50 of these! That's a big time milestone, I feel like.
Kurt Dupuis:
Isn't that wild?
Steve Seid:
It's amazing.
Kurt Dupuis:
It does not feel like 50 for sure. I still remember the conversation that we had when we talked about this for the first time. And here we are, what, two and a half years later, 50 episodes and.
Steve Seid:
Yeah.
Kurt Dupuis:
We've shared before the numbers of how many podcasts just fall off the face of the earth. Several financial podcasts that I like, they seem to make it six or 12 months and then they're out. And here we are, two and a half years, 50 episodes. Let's go.
Steve Seid:
They said, what is it? The average one falls off to, there's like a graveyard at below 12 or something.
Kurt Dupuis:
Yeah, it's less than 20. If you make it over 20. You are, in podcast land, you are elite. So at 50, we are marginally better than that.
Steve Seid:
We are marginally elite. Is that what you're saying?
Kurt Dupuis:
Yeah.
Steve Seid:
We are slightly...
Kurt Dupuis:
Yeah. I'm okay with that.
Steve Seid:
Elite.
Kurt Dupuis:
That's a good tombstone. Good tombstone reading right there.
Steve Seid:
Yeah. Thanks everyone who's listened to an episode and who's listening to this episode. This whole thing's been kind of a trip, hasn't it? It's been a lot of fun. So yeah, I don't know what else to say of that other than let's get to a hundred, right?
Kurt Dupuis:
So many people, it's meeting for the first time. They already know about the podcast. I'm like, Well, my job here is done then. If you know about the podcast, you know what we're about. So
Steve Seid:
Yeah, can only go downhill from here if I open my mouth, that kind of thing. Yeah.
Kurt Dupuis:
Fair. That's a fair.
Steve Seid:
Well, this episode 50 is one we're actually very excited about.
Kurt Dupuis:
Very.
Steve Seid:
We got Annalee Kruger on the show today. Annalee is the owner of Care Right, Incorporated. She has a 25 year career in the senior care industry doing senior care planning. In addition to Care Right where she kind of advises people on end of life planning, she also started Plan for Life, which is an elder planning specialist designation, which we'll talk about a little bit more throughout the episode because we think it'd be a good thing for our audience to think about.
And there really is kind of two reasons why we wanted to have her on. One is we think there's a real opportunity to differentiate here. Most financial professionals, they do certain things around elder care and planning. But there's an opportunity to go that extra mile and that extra mile in our view could really help you differentiate the practice, what comes with it, the next generation. This is a way to solidify that relationship unquestionably and referrals as well. Where does business development come from? Where does growth come from? It comes from doing a really great job for clients, and this is one way to do it.
Kurt Dupuis:
My mom's one of four and she has three brothers. But when it came to the end of life care for my grandparents, it mostly fell on her shoulders and there was no plan.
Steve Seid:
Right.
Kurt Dupuis:
There was not a lot of communication between the siblings. And I saw the net result of that, which is not...
Steve Seid:
How that looks.
Kurt Dupuis:
Not great. And so I've seen it firsthand. But then secondly, my wife and I did an estate plan earlier this year. We have a financial plan. Aging can just wreck your relationships and it can wreck your finances. So it just makes sense that that would be part of both the familial and the financial conversation. Annalee, as a former social worker to me, she just exudes caring about people…
Steve Seid:
Totally.
Kurt Dupuis:
…which is the starting place for her as a person. I think it was super interesting to learn about it. I think all your previous points are valid and I think what a great messenger that Annalee was to deliver this message.
Steve Seid:
I offered to have her meet my parents. If she didn't say no to that, she's a very caring person. You know what's funny is I throw that joke out there. My parents will absolutely listen to this episode, so I'm just joking. Mom and Dad, I promise I'm joking. Kind of, a little bit.
Kurt Dupuis:
Maybe. So when we come back, we'll get into our interview with Annalee Kruger, but before we do, make sure you hit subscribe. Auto download, that's a feature on Google podcast that I have just enabled. Tell a friend and as always write us a review, if you have a couple minutes. It helps other people find the show. So without further ado, here's our interview with Annalee Kruger.
We are so excited to welcome Annalee Kruger. Thanks for your time today, Annalee.
Annalee Kruger:
Well, thanks for asking me to join your podcast today.
Kurt Dupuis:
So before we get into it, why don't you just tell us a little bit about your story, your background, and the organization that you've started.
Annalee Kruger:
Perfect. All right, so my name is Annalee Kruger. I was a social worker in long-term care communities, actually called Continuing Care Retirement Communities, CCRCs, thirty years ago when I first started my career. Back then one person did all of the marketing, all of the tours. And that person was me as well as my social work job as well, with doing assessments and care plans and meeting with the families and leading support groups.
Every day was a variation of the same thing. Adult kids found themselves thrust into crisis mode with their aging parents. Mom was in the hospital, she's the primary caregiver to Dad who has dementia. Mom fell, she broke her hip, she's in the hospital. What do we do? Because the hospital is saying you need to find somewhere to go tomorrow because we're going to discharge your mom.
So the kids would come and do the tours and they were always frazzled. They were overwhelmed. They were blindsided by the medical crisis. And they were blindsided because they had no idea what questions to ask or what to look for during that tour. I was spending two and three hours at a time with each family because they had so many questions. They think Medicare is going to pay for everything. A lot of the adult kids made the promise to Mom and Dad that we'll never put you in a facility.
Kurt Dupuis:
Yeah.
Annalee Kruger:
Kids were angry at each other because brother Tom said something stupid 30 years ago at a birthday party and now no one talks and now Dad had a stroke.
Kurt Dupuis:
We've all got a Tom, don't we?
Annalee Kruger:
We all have a Tom in our families. So anyway, after 18 years of working as an employee in long term care and doing these tours and meeting with families, I was like, Oh God, I think I have a business model here. So I left corporate America, started Care Right in 2011. And by 2012, I was already nationwide with working with families across the country in developing customized aging plans.
We know that families just don't want to talk about the what ifs and the what whens of aging. They don't want to talk about the good, the bad and ugly. And so that's why they don't put a plan together because they don't want to usually talk about stuff like that. So that's what I do. I work with families across the country. I've been virtual before you had to be. I was virtual in 2012 because families just don't live near each other.
Kurt Dupuis:
Yeah.
Annalee Kruger:
So the only way I could facilitate their family meeting was to leverage, at that time, Skype.
Kurt Dupuis:
You describe a caregiver, kind of a multi-lateral way. To you, what is a caregiver?
Annalee Kruger:
Oh, that's actually probably the best question you're going to ask.
Kurt Dupuis:
Thank you.
Annalee Kruger:
Because there's a lot of families. You're welcome. There are a lot of families that, see this is going to be fun.
There are families out there that are caregivers, but they don't even know that they're caregivers. So that's why that's such a good question. Because you're a caregiver, if you are doing anything for an aging loved one or vulnerable adult and you're not getting paid or compensated for it. So we're talking even if you go over and drop off groceries or drop off milk or have to run errands or go shopping or go to the pharmacy and set up their medications for them.
If you're coordinating doctor's appointments, if you're paying their bills because you're the financial power of attorney. If you are obviously helping with physical care, those are all caregivers. Families don't realize that until they're really overwhelmed by what I call the 'caregiver snowball.' Because it starts out manageable. But then when you start taking time off work or having to burn through your PTO or your FMLA benefits because you're like, oh my gosh, when is this? What is happening here? All I'm doing, I'm totally consumed by Mom and Dad's needs.
Kurt Dupuis:
Yeah. We're going to get to maybe a couple of case studies for Seid’s side of the family later. This is so pertinent to me because just watched my mom deal with this. She's one of four and the only girl, which I think is important because I think that onus tends to be, I've got two girls, so I think I'm diversified. A lot of that onus seems to be on the women. So I watched her go through this and then when they both passed, watching, she was power of attorney for everything. But even still there was conflict. There was, to which there is still no resolution. It was just such, so many problems to your “snowball point” that they had no idea were even coming and they're still not resolved to this day. So the need for this is gigantic. I think that's pretty clear.
And I listened to one of your podcast episodes, but you had a whole episode where you talked about, basically, what I saw it as is, look, do this for free by yourself if you want to. These are all of the things to consider. I think it was an hour long. And it was very detailed and there was a ton of stuff I had never even thought of. But if you were to sort of simplify that into pillars, what would you say are some of the main pillars that people need to think about planning and aging?
Annalee Kruger:
What's working well at home right now with Mom and Dad? Are they eating? Are they taking their medications? Are they safe to drive? Are they falling? Is their house, “senior safe”? So that's one pillar. What is happening right now? What is everyone in the family's perspective of what's happening right now? You can imagine when I facilitate these family meetings, everyone has their own perspective of how their parent is doing. And everyone has their own relationship with their parent and their siblings. And so perspectives are very different most of the time.
So pillars are, what is working well right now? What is not working well right now? What red flags or what concerns are you seeing? Another pillar is what conversations have you already had as a family about what whens of aging? It's not rocket science to know that as we get older, we will need care. We are not going to get healthier as we age. So no one should be surprised by this whole aging thing when Mom and Dad need more care.
So that's a pillar, is how do you communicate as a family and what kind of conversations have you had already? Another pillar is, we know that Mom and Dad want to age in place at home. Assisted livings and nursing homes are full of also people who wanted to age in place at home. So what's the plan? What's our plan as a family when Mom and Dad cannot stay at home anymore because, either they can't afford the home care costs and Medicare does not pay for that. So what's the plan when Mom and Dad can't afford to stay at home, but what's the plan when they either can't afford to stay at home or they can't find quality care workers that are consistent, dependable, reliable, compassionate and properly trained?
That's a tall order. You wouldn't think that it is, but it's a tall order. So that's another pillar. Another pillar is end of life discussions. Do you know what your parents already have in place? Do they have a power of attorney? And is it you? Because you need to know if you are because that can become a full-time job. What do they have in place already for plans and paperwork? Do they have long-term care insurance? Do they have a life insurance hybrid? Does your dad have VA benefits? So what kind of paperwork is in order and where are the gaps in the planning with that type of paperwork?
Steve Seid:
Talk to us about what an aging plan actually is and what the components are.
Annalee Kruger:
Which is easy because that piggybacks on what I just shared on those pillars. So when we talk about an aging plan, it's me facilitating their family meeting. Finding out literally what's working well right now. What's not working well? I also get the same information from Mom and Dad because the whole family is my client. Mom and Dad need to have a say because it's their aging plan. And we talk about what do you already have in place? Do you have home care? Do you have fall buttons? Do you have cameras in the house? Do you have a housekeeper. Do you have a driver? So what services do you already have in place?
If you're the primary caregiver, what can we take off your caregiver plate and find a solution for that, yes, you're going to have to pay for, but that's better than you getting burned out as a caregiver. So we talk about the infamous grab and go binder. So getting all their documents.
Kurt Dupuis:
Holy Smokes!
Annalee Kruger:
Yeah, and that's mine. So there's 11 tabs in here like accounts, passwords, your business succession plan, your funeral arrangements.
Steve Seid:
Annalee just held up a very thick volume with all kinds of paper and tabs in there. So in other words, a lot of information.
Kurt Dupuis:
That was like a four-incher. That thing was thick!
Annalee Kruger:
And that's mine. That's just me and I'm single, right?
Steve Seid:
Wow.
Annalee Kruger:
I don't have kids, I don't have a trust in place. So when it's a family putting their stuff in order, the value of that is making sure that you don't have any gaps in your plans and making sure that your documents are updated. And why that's important is because some of these folks did get their powers of attorney done 10, 15, 20 years ago, but maybe the agents that they listed are dead or demented or they no longer have a relationship with that person. And so it's good to, that's part of that aging plan is look at your documents. Is everything up to date? Does it still make sense for your current wishes versus 20 year ago wishes.
And then we talk about, we know Mom and Dad that you want to age in place at home. Here's the positives of aging in place at home. You’re home with your own belongings, your own routine. But the downsides can be that it's still lonely. You're not eating very well there. The television tends to be their socialization and so they may or may not be agreeable to bringing home care in.
Then we also know that if they can't stay at home, they need to be thinking about where does it make sense for me to hang my hat. If I can't stay at home, does it make sense for me to stay in Tucson, Arizona if my four kids live in four different states? Cause who's going to oversee my care? So that aging plan also involves where we do the market research on home care companies, adult daycare programs and all of the different levels of care. If you have two aging parents, what's the plan if they both need two different levels of care?
So it's really helping them sort out what their options are for their current needs and their long-term care needs. We then teach them. They get all the tools they need to be successful. So we teach them about what are the differences and levels of care like independent living, assisted living, and all the way through. We teach them how to tour these facilities with confidence because, again, that's why I started my business in the first place is because families don't know what questions to ask. They think that just because the place is pretty, that it's going to provide good care. And I'm like, not at all.
Kurt Dupuis:
I love a story that you talked about there where it was a high end place with nice art everywhere, but the people looked miserable. Receptionist was not a warm human being versus a place that was not the Ritz Carlton, but people seemed happy. The people under care were enjoying themselves.
Annalee Kruger:
I have an eight page checklist that my clients get of all the different questions to ask when you're in these facilities. Cause yes, we can do the market research and get the floor plans, the amenities. Make sure that the list that we provide are actual viable options. But it boils down to that tour experience, right?
Kurt Dupuis:
Sure.
Annalee Kruger:
So it can be super fancy, super pretty, but are the residents happy or do they still have oatmeal on their shirt and it's three o'clock in the afternoon and that's from breakfast.
Kurt Dupuis:
Right.
Annalee Kruger:
We also teach them how to be bold advocates because we know that the quality of care has been less than great in most of these care communities. The World Health Organization did a survey in 2020 and found that 64% of CNAs or certified nursing assistants in these long term care facilities admitted to abusing and neglecting their residents.
Steve Seid:
Wow.
Annalee Kruger:
So we know that, and I know that that number is even higher because I have a patient advocacy division of Care Right and we know that we have to fight tooth and nail with these nurses and these physicians to get just basic quality care.
Steve Seid:
It sounds like in most of these cases people are scrambling just trying to get things in place. And so they're not even thinking to that next level of advocacy. Let's take a step back for a second. So you're facilitating this conversation. You're getting a plan in place. There's two parties here, there's the caregiver client, that's one party or parties that you're working with. And then of course the client that's actually needing care. For both parties, what exactly are you trying to accomplish?
Annalee Kruger:
Trying to get them educated because, again, they're coming to me very uneducated. So they think Medicare's going to pay for everything. I can always tell when they have a loved one with dementia and they didn't do their homework because they'll say things like if Dad's dementia progresses instead of when dad's dementia progresses. So the goal is to get improved family communication, help them make informed decisions, help them understand what their care options are based on what they can afford. And number four, help them age in place at home. And also number five, make sure that they know what care facility options can be available when they're ready to make that change. And number six goal is to make sure that they use that grab and go binder and get their documents in order.
Kurt Dupuis:
Can you tell us about the book?
Annalee Kruger:
I can. Well there's no point in holding it up.
Kurt Dupuis:
You can. We'll gaze upon it.
Annalee Kruger:
I absolutely can tell you about the book. That was a fight to the finish there to get that thing done. So the book is called The Invisible Patient, The Emotional, Financial and Physical Toll on Family Caregivers. I wrote this book because I am trying to reach the 65.7 million family caregivers that are out there in the United States.
Now I'm just little old me, so it's kind of hard to reach that. I mean that's a big lofty goal. So the only way that I could think about trying to reach families and help them help themselves was to write a book. So it's really jam packed with how to develop your own aging plan. I have a family meeting agenda in there. So it's a bunch of bullet points of the down and dirty of if you have aging parents or you are the Mom and Dad and you don't want to be a burden on your kids, here's how you develop an aging plan.
Here's what you should have in your grab and go binder. Here's how you interview home care companies. Here's some questions on how to tour care facilities. So everything that I do, white glove approach, I created a chapter for that with a whole bunch of bullet points. It's a little bit, probably intimidating at the beginning, when you first open it.
Kurt Dupuis:
Is it as thick as your other binder?
Annalee Kruger:
No, it's not as thick as my other binder, but it's like the type set on it is like 16, right? Because most of the people that might be reading this might have vision impairment. So it's thicker because the print on it's big.
Kurt Dupuis:
Gotcha.
Annalee Kruger:
Yep.
Kurt Dupuis:
So even if people don't contract you for the services you provide, it's still sort of a playbook for things to think through and still very education based, which is what I love about your whole approach.
Annalee Kruger:
And then I also have, because I know that my book, even though it's on Amazon, it's still not going to get it in the hands of the 65.7 million family caregivers. So what I did was I also created a free Facebook group called the Care Right's Family Caregiver Solutions Facebook group. And every day we put information in there about self care or dementia or considerations. Now that's the free group. Now if they want to learn how to develop their own aging plan, then they can upgrade to the class on where I teach them as a group how to develop your own aging plan with your own family.
Kurt Dupuis:
Tiered approach. I love it.
Annalee Kruger:
Yes.
Kurt Dupuis:
So I was a little skeptical about this whole topic before I started educating myself, particularly when it comes to long-term care. So I thought you just sold long-term care. I thought that was the angle here and it's like the opposite of that.
Annalee Kruger:
Oh I don't even sell insurance.
Kurt Dupuis:
I know. That was soothing for me to learn very early on. But you have experience with long-term care and working with financial professionals. I want to get to our audience, which is financial professionals and what they do well and what they don't do so well. But as a product, long term care being a product, what are some of the things that it does do? But maybe more importantly, what are some of the things that it does not do that people think it does?
Annalee Kruger:
It seems that some people who sell the product don't actually know how it works. That's my experience, is they can sell it, but then 20 years from now when their client needs to use it, they're really not sure how that whole process works. I have two categories now of clients because I have the people that are in their eighties, nineties, and a hundreds that have those old Cadillac programs or the Cadillac policies where it paid really, really well. But then I also have younger clients that are in their sixties, seventies who have those life insurance hybrids.
Since your audience is financial advisors and planners and the financial industry is making sure that you don't just have a one and done conversation about long term care insurance, making sure that that's part of your protocol when you're meeting with your clients of just making sure that they understand what that policy covers. Every single client that I've ever worked with has never understood what their policy is, how to activate it. They don't know what ADLs mean, activities of daily living. And they have zero idea of what an elimination period is. They don't have any idea what that means.
And so one tip or suggestion I would give to your audience is making sure that, if this is a product that your client has, that you have regular conversations about it. That it's not a one and done conversation. Number two about long term care insurance is making sure that you are having this conversation about how would you pay for care? Because again, families just seem to, for whatever reason, assume that Medicare is going to pay for everything or someone else will pay. And it's like, no, this is going to be out of pocket unless you have long-term care insurance or you're a veteran or you use a reverse mortgage.
Kurt Dupuis:
Hmmm.
Annalee Kruger:
So making sure that they understand how care gets paid and really how expensive care can be.
Kurt Dupuis:
Costs have gone up. Nuclear families are not living all in the same city, much less time zone. It's more expensive and it's less convenient, which is why planning and having some sort of plan makes sense. The other thing I want to avoid is scaring people into action because I'm sure you have multitudinous stories of how things have gone bad.
Annalee Kruger:
Yeah.
Kurt Dupuis:
But yeah, let's flip that a little bit. When this works, clients of yours that work with you over a period of time, paint the picture of what the ideal scenario looks like.
Annalee Kruger:
Ideally families would come to me or get referred to me proactively, meaning they're not in crisis and they are still getting along because 92% of my clients come to me in crisis. Their relationships are so strained that in 85% of those families I'm doing family mediation alongside of trying to facilitate their family.
Kurt Dupuis:
You wear some hats!
Annalee Kruger:
Actually that's why I look like this. This is gray hair everywhere. So ideally if advisors, and that's what I teach advisors in that elder planning specialist program, is start having these conversations with your clients. And so if your clients are the Ethels and the Marvins, they're the 70, 80 and 90 year olds, what kind of conversations have you had with your adult kids about what ifs and what whens of aging? They know that they also want to age in place at home, but as an advisor you need to help them understand that that's a great goal, but we still have to have plan B in place.
Kurt Dupuis:
Contingency plans, yeah.
Annalee Kruger:
A contingency plan. And we know that the good care communities have long waiting lists. So to the daughters and the sons, what conversations have you had with your parents about aging? Is there anything in your personal life that's impacting your ability to earn a living, that's impacting your health or impacting your relationships? Is there anything in your personal life that's affecting your career or your livelihood? They will absolutely say yes, actually there is. I'm taking care of Mom and Dad and I'm not taking that job promotion because I don't need any more responsibility.
Kurt Dupuis:
Yeah.
Annalee Kruger:
According to a Genworth study, we know that 46% of family caregivers had to work fewer hours. So as an advisor, you have a vested interest in making sure that you are identifying and meeting the needs of your clients all the way around. We know that 63% of family caregivers are paying for their loved one's care out of their own pocket.
So as an advisor, it is prudent to know this, that this is what's happening with families. And I know that you are all working with families in this boat. It makes the relationship stickier when you say, Sally, I have your financial plan in place, but we use a collaborative approach here at firm whatever. We have a resource that we'd like to connect you to, whether it's a realtor, you know need to be building as advisors and using that collaborative approach. You need to be building a trusted network of professionals to refer your clients to because you can't be the one stop shop. You can be like me and be the hub and then make the referrals to the professionals of that family need.
Steve Seid:
So is that how you work with financial professionals? You help them develop that network, understand what questions to ask, and then also how did you start working with financial professionals? I'm just curious.
Annalee Kruger:
So we'll answer that one first.
Steve Seid:
Yeah.
Annalee Kruger:
So the reason I started Plan for Life now, my other company, so I got Care Right, I wear two hats. So I have Care Right which is direct to consumer, facilitating family meetings, family mediation and aging plans. But when I first started Care Right I was like, okay, so who is already working with consumers who have the intellect of planning ahead? So I was like, oh, that would be financial planners. So within a couple of years of starting Care Right, I started sponsoring Wisconsin FPA and very, very, very, very, very quickly, through a ton of one-to-one meetings, when I would ask them, Well how are you addressing the needs of your aging clients? Then they're like, Well how much more we can upsell them on long term care insurance or other products that we have.
And I was like, Oh, I see, but what about meeting the needs of your clients without having to sell a product but using a collaborative team approach with other professionals. That's how I started Plan for Life Now and created that elder planning specialist designation with the National CFP board so that CFPs can get 10 CEs and call themselves an elder planning specialist.
So to answer your second question, that's how I work with advisors is in a two-part capacity. Number one, through having them go through the training, the elder planning specialist course. And number two, working directly with their clients. I like it when the advisor joins on that 30 minute consult with their client and participates in that whole aging plan process because then they, a. Learn a lot about their client that they didn't know because I'm asking questions that they don't because I'm not a financial planner. And number two, it helps make that relationship sticky because they participate in my aging plan process with me facilitating family meetings, now they're actually meeting that second generation.
Kurt Dupuis:
We talk about connecting generations almost endlessly because the average age and demographic of our financial professionals is somewhere between 55 and 60. And so if they are not in need of this type of service, it's likely that a good chunk of their clients are. But even me as a 40 year old with aging parents, I see a need for some conversations around this.
Annalee Kruger:
And it's better to have these conversations now. As an advisor, do you know how good that makes you look when you're not just focused on portfolio and assets under management? When you're like, You know what, I care about you as a person, not just about the portfolio, but I care about you as a person. The advisors that go through that elder planning specialist program, those advisors have that mindset of we see that the needs of our clients are changing, we want to stay on top of that and help support them through that journey because they also know that that's going to help them be more successful as an advisor as well.
Steve Seid:
So you mentioned the advisors you're working with tend to be that way, the holistic, the caring. Is there an opportunity for differentiation here? In other words, if I go out and I get this designation or I work with you or I have the resources, would make them stand out. How do you see that?
Annalee Kruger:
Oh, absolutely. So when you have aging parents or if you are aging, wouldn't it make sense to work with advisors who are properly trained in what your needs are going to be? It just makes sense. So that's how you can differentiate yourself as an advisor. That's how you differentiate yourself because you are specially trained in elder care issues and family caregiver issues. Most advisors are not trained in that. And that's why their clients aren't having these types of conversations.
Steve Seid:
So let's do a couple more things before we let you go. And we really, really appreciate you coming on. I want to do a case study with some fictitious random people that are absolutely not real named Jeff and Karen Seid. They're going to be fictitious. Then we're going to do some summary talking points, summarize the whole thing for financial professionals.
So let's do Jeff Seid first. Jeff is... He's...
Kurt Dupuis:
I'm so excited for this.
Steve Seid:
I'm not going to go crazy. All I'm going to do is share their perspective and because they don't listen to me when I talk about anything to do with this, again about family members not being able to have conversations. So I just want what you would say to them. Okay, so Jeff Seid is going to be 70 soon, really healthy guy, never drank, never smoked, ate pretty well, watched his weight. So that's part one. Does not believe in doctors at all, at all. Zero. He's into the alternative medicine. That's his jam.
Kurt Dupuis:
Ok.
Steve Seid:
And when we talk about him living a long time or whatever, his comment to me is, Oh, I'm not going to need anything. I'll die in the street. I don't care. Okay. So that's one.
Karen, her perspective is, I don't want to save any money. I don't want to think about that. I want to be able to spend my money while I'm young and able to use it because when I'm old and decrepit and if something happens to me, I'll just go and move into one of my son's houses or something like that. The point is, this discussion for them, they don't even want to have it. They don't want to think about it. They don't want to care about it. What would you say to those two people?
Annalee Kruger:
Okay, so I only get this literally every single day. So here's what I say to that. So it's hardly ever Mom and Dad who call me for an aging plan. Who do you think it is?
Kurt Dupuis:
It's us.
Steve Seid:
It's the children. Yeah.
Kurt Dupuis:
Yeah.
Annalee Kruger:
It's the kids, right? Because we know that 58% of adult kids will get thrust into that role of family caregiving. So this is how you get around that, or this is how you broach your parents with this type of conversation. It's sneaky as heck, but it works.
Kurt Dupuis:
I already love it then.
Annalee Kruger:
It's a little bit sneaky. But it works because you ask them questions that nobody in their right mind would say no to. All right. So Mom and Dad, is it important to you to have a say in what happens to you as you age? Who's going to say no to that?
Steve Seid:
Right.
Annalee Kruger:
Is it important to you to have a say in what happens to you as you age? Or what kind of care you get? Is it important for you to have the best quality of life possible? Who's going to say no to that? So when we talk about the Karens, right? Well, I'm going to just spend my money and whatever happens to me happens to me. I'll just go on Medicaid because that's some people's plan. And that's a terrible, terrible plan because you have no say in what happens to you. You have no say in where you get your care.
You have no say in where you live to get your care. You have no say in your care providers because you have to go to a doctor that actually works with Medicaid people. And you have to know that, and this is going to sound terrible, but in care facilities that are Medicaid facilities, you should never expect to get the best quality. Even if you wanted to stay at home, Medicaid does not pay a hundred percent for you to be able to stay at home. So we know that from conversations with home care companies that they send their A team out to people who are private pay. And they send their B team, they're less than great home care workers, to their Medicaid people because they're going to get paid no matter what.
Kurt Dupuis:
Huh.
Annalee Kruger:
So when you have parents that are resistant, say, is it important to you to have a say in what happens to you? Is it important for you to not be a burden on your kids? Speak from the heart. And then I always give them more because parents can be sneaky little suckers. And so then you go the route of leveraging what you do know about your parents.
Do they have long-term care insurance? Yes. Great. Then that tells me that they at some point had the intellect at some point to plan ahead from a long-term care insurance perspective.
Kurt Dupuis:
Yeah.
Annalee Kruger:
Do they work with a financial advisor? Yes. Okay, that tells me they have the intellect to plan ahead. Do they have their estate documents done? Yes. That tells me they have, see where I'm going with that? Yeah. So the aging plan is no different. Just like you pay a financial planner, just like you pay an attorney, just like you pay a tax specialist, people pay us to do an aging plan for them. So it's a multi-prong approach.
When I ask moms and dads, What are your goals as you age? It's always the same two responses. I want to age in place at home and then right out of their breath and their cute little lips is, But I don't want to be a burden on my kids. But again, guess who is calling me. So when I ask the kids what are your goals for your parents, it is a version of the same thing, a variation of the same thing. I want my parents to be happy, I want them to be safe. I want them to have the best quality of life possible and I want them to have the best quality of care possible. The only way to marry or unite those sets of goals is through having an aging plan.
Kurt Dupuis:
Oh, this is, it makes so much sense.
Annalee Kruger:
I know, right?
Kurt Dupuis:
The financial plan, the estate plan, it's like, I've never known this was a thing. And like I said, watching my mom go through this a number of years ago and not wanting to go through that myself, we're going to be talking offline.
Annalee Kruger:
Well, what makes me sad, and that's the social worker coming out in me, is that you would hope the aging process brings families together. And I'm here to tell you that it does not because of family dynamics, because of money.
Kurt Dupuis:
Aging can be a disaster for families, but it doesn't have to be.
Annalee Kruger:
Aging can be a positive experience if you have an aging plan in place and you have your ducks in a row. You have your grab and go binder or your version of a grab and go binder. It can be a positive experience if we have a plan.
Kurt Dupuis:
I love it. Well, so we talked about a ton of resources for people. Let's go through them really quickly. So there's the book, I don't know if we mentioned the name, The Invisible Patient. You have a podcast, which is fantastic. You have financial professionals on, you have various interviewees on, what's the name of the podcast?
Annalee Kruger:
So it's called The Caregiver Crisis.
Kurt Dupuis:
Awesome. And then do you have a website for Care Right, your concierge of senior care planning, which again, a few weeks ago did not even know that was a thing. So glad to learn that it is a thing. Where can people reach out to you in regards to those services?
Annalee Kruger:
So they can reach out to me on the website. I have a calendar on the website and that's carerightinc.com. I also have a Care Right Facebook page that people can message me on that as well. Or they can just call cell the good old fashion way. 239-770-6322.
Kurt Dupuis:
Got that good Florida zip code. I love it.
Annalee Kruger:
Yep.
Kurt Dupuis:
Annalee, thank you so much for bestowing some wisdom upon us. This is a crucial topic. I will be sharing this conversation with a lot of people. So I appreciate the time, the knowledge, and we look forward to seeing you down the road.
Annalee Kruger:
Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity.
Steve Seid:
Thanks, Annalee.
Annalee Kruger:
You bet.
Steve Seid:
And welcome back to our Costanza corner. And I think, Kurt, we know what our Costanza is. It's episode 50. We crossed that threshold, we celebrate that.
Kurt Dupuis:
I'm currently drinking champagne….
Steve Seid:
But I also have a George...
Kurt Dupuis:
…in celebration.
Steve Seid:
Yeah, yeah. That's what's in this cup that no one can see right now. It's just pure booze right in here. But I did bring a George Costanza quote. You want one of those?
Kurt Dupuis:
Oh, I love them. I'm embarrassed it took this long to actually include Costanza quotes in the Costanza corner, but I'm here for it. Let's go.
Steve Seid:
I don't remember this episode, but it's hilarious.
Kurt Dupuis:
Oh Okay.
Steve Seid:
So I'll just read it for you. And you tell me if you recognize the episode. Jerry goes, You're on a desert island, you can bring five books. Which five do you take? And George says, I got to read five books. Do you remember that? I did not.
Kurt Dupuis:
I don't.
Steve Seid:
I want to know what episode that's from. I don't even remember that.
Kurt Dupuis:
I could say..
Steve Seid:
I feel like.
Kurt Dupuis:
What? I'm stranded on a desert island. You want me reading? What?
Steve Seid:
He's like I got to read five whole books? Ah my God.
Kurt Dupuis:
As if being stranded on a desert island, isn't punishment enough? Great show. Great episode. Here's to another 50, bud.
Steve Seid:
Yeah. Thanks guys. Thanks everyone for listening. We'll see you next time.
Kurt Dupuis:
Thanks y'all. Bye.
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